Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Afghanistan, When is it all too much?

[Ratt]

I have been reading something from another forum I'm on, and thought that I would share it. Now I realise that this topic may cause some controversy, and for that I apologise, but I think it is worth talking about. Here is what was written:

To update you on some things:

The netherlands is planning to quit helping the amrican war effort in Afghanistan. The government is devided on the subject and half of the government doesn't want to send in 1100 of our soldiers to afghanistan.
This is how the american government replies:
"If the netherlands doesn't help with the war effort they will face dire sanctions."

I mean?! WTF! now USA is threatening the netherlands! How long will it be until the headlines in the newspapers read: BALKENENDE, PREMIER OF THE NETHERLANDS HAS KEPT HIS WEAPONS OF MASS DESCTRUCTION FROM THE PUBLIC. OUR SPIES REPORT LARGE FACILITIES.

I mean... fuck off, we are fucking STORING damn american missiles and waste!

Bat as I always say: The USA may have bombs, but we can cut off their drug supply we PRODUCE the stuff that your officials are addicted to...
what happens when we stop the flow


This post was written by a friend of mine in Holland. What *really* concerns me is that if Bush has pretty much said to the world "You are with us or against us" and other countries that have supported the USA now wish to withdraw troops, they must be allowed to. I say this because the way it sounds to me is that Bush may/will attack countries that have withdrawn their troops.

I was all for some action to get Osama Bin Laden, but there is now a new government, one that does not support him. By all means leave some troops for peace keeping, and to find the prick, but it has been over four years and they still have not found him. Maybe a smaller force would be more successful?

[bts34e]

I agree, that we should not force any country by any means to help. Whether said country wants to take action or not is there decision. This being said I pose a question to any country that chooses against helping the United States. Should the United States lend aid on any of the numerous issues of these countries? I am no genious but I understand the simple concept of give and take. Maybe you can enlighten me but I bet the united states does more than its share for any of these countries. Further more the notion that The United States is so frivilous on who they choose to go to war with is absurd! People should get a grip!

[Ratt]

I agree, that we should not force any country by any means to help. Whether said country wants to take action or not is there decision. This being said I pose a question to any country that chooses against helping the United States. Should the United States lend aid on any of the numerous issues of these countries? I am no genious but I understand the simple concept of give and take. Maybe you can enlighten me but I bet the united states does more than its share for any of these countries. Further more the notion that The United States is so frivilous on who they choose to go to war with is absurd! People should get a grip!

I am not trying to say that the US will go to war with anyone; but the possibility is there. I think the original post mentioned the US response as

"If the netherlands doesn't help with the war effort they will face dire sanctions."

Now, You are quite correct with the give and take, but surely the US can do better that to basically bribe troops out of a country?

I admit that the US has provided, and will probably continue to provide, a large amount of aid to many countries. But to impose imposing dire sanctions for not supplying troops seems to be blackmail; which to my way of understanding things is not a legal thing to do.

[bts34e]

My take on this is simple. I did not hear or see this quote from anywhere except you and some friend of yours that I take is a reporter. Spain pulled out the United States didnt threaten them! Why would the United States take this stance on a country that was talking about sending 1100 troops? It sounds to me like a simple case of hearing one side of the story. This seems to happen entirely too much to the United States, especially by people who call themselves allies!

[Ratt]

My take on this is simple. I did not hear or see this quote from anywhere except you and some friend of yours that I take is a reporter. Spain pulled out the United States didnt threaten them! Why would the United States take this stance on a country that was talking about sending 1100 troops? It sounds to me like a simple case of hearing one side of the story. This seems to happen entirely too much to the United States, especially by people who call themselves allies!

Hmmm... very good point. I had not thought of it that way.

Maybe it's time to do some *ahem* "proper" research...

[bts34e]

Please understand I respect your opinion, I just believe in fairness. I also respect you for wanting to find the facts!

[countryboykalamazoo]

The truth is, none of us will ever know the "truth", we only know what the government allows the media to tell us. I believe that the media likes to spin things in their favor, whatever it takes to get an audience. But I do agree that I think a small elite task force is all that is called for in the search for Osama, and pull the rest out, let the people govern themselves. Look how well it worked out when the British allowed us to govern ourselves(maybe not the best example depending on your point of view of the state of the demorcracy)

[countryboykalamazoo]

"THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE"(where is Mulder when you need him)

[bts34e]

I agree that we only know what they want us to know. This is why I believe it's difficult to take a stance. I'm just tired of the default stance being that the United States sucks!

[countryboykalamazoo]

Ditto, but how we are percieved is out of our hands, it's the foriegn media that portrays us as imbecials and religiously intolerant of other cultures. America, brings us your masses..........just as long as they pass a conformity test, doesn't sound like what our country was founded on, or what has mad us a the melting pot of the western world, but people forget how deversified and tolerant the majority of the population is, just the whack jobs that everybody sees and hears about. Like when a tornado goes through a trailer park...........who is the first person the media looks for to interview.......the biggest illiterate hilljack in the area(but it is kinda of funny because it's almost expected now ).....What was I ranting about now??

[bondiguy]

No war is necessary, no one will ever stop the Taliban, Al queda etc, even if Osama is found and killed. There will simply be a new person to replace him at the top with the same radical ideas etc.

Just thank the lord you do not live in those countries

[jrock8]

Just thank the lord you do not live in those countries

umm... i think they would thank allah there

[Ratt]

Hmmm...

In regards to the perception of Americans in other countries - Don't forget that we get a lot of American TV Shows that give a biased insight into the American Culture. Add that to the fact that some of us in Australia call our Prime Minister "Bonzai" because he is really just a little Bush.

And In regards to the forces needed to "sub-due" Bin Laden and his forces... all I can say is a large force cannot hope to beat a small force when the conditions (such as terrain) favour the small forces.

*end rant*

[nikkibird]

Nobody will ever agree here. I'm from the U.S. but I don't agree with everyone in this country. Right now I don't know how to feel because I don't know all the facts. I'm not sure if what your friend heard was true or not, so I'm at a loss. But I do know that I would never support trying to force another country into supporting the war we started.

[diane26]

Hmmm bad subject for me to get into well American Politics that is.


Maybe someone should put american in the word association post so I can put hypocrit

[Ratt]

Hmmm bad subject for me to get into well American Politics that is.
Maybe someone should put american in the word association post so I can put hypocrit

Ouch...

[nikkibird]

Hmmm bad subject for me to get into well American Politics that is.
Maybe someone should put american in the word association post so I can put hypocrit

Well then, you're not much better, since you're stereotyping us.

[diane26]

Not all Americans dear just the political part of America.

[Ratt]

Well then, you're not much better, since you're stereotyping us.

Peace Ladies... Peace...

Did not want this thread to turn into an argument.

[diane26]

And yes I am not much better cause as much as I can not stand our political side sometimes I would never leave to another country to live.

[diane26]

Peace Ladies... Peace...

Did not want this thread to turn into an argument.

Don't worry about me just letting o0ut my little vent on our governmant since we were on the subject.

[jrock8]

all i have to say on this topic is that your perspective entirely changes when one of your close buddies finds out he's getting sent over for at least a year, probably closer to 18 months...

[nikkibird]

Not all Americans dear just the political part of America.

Peace Ladies... Peace...

Did not want this thread to turn into an argument.

I am not arguing, just making a point. And I happen to have a close family member that is a GOOD politician, so I take offense to the stereotype

[nikkibird]

all i have to say on this topic is that your perspective entirely changes when one of your close buddies finds out he's getting sent over for at least a year, probably closer to 18 months...

I have 4 friends in Iraq right now, and they are very proud.

[diane26]

Well I guess it's good that in America you have that right as do I.


Do I think every person is bad. Of course not. But when it comes to our politics concerning other countries I think we are the biggest hypocrites out there.. JMO of course.

And I myself have had many people close to me fight in this war the Iraq war and Dessert Storm Vietnam and WW2.

All the men in my family are military. My little bro ws shipped off to Iraq just fresh out of boot camp and training for over a year!

[nikkibird]

Diane, you're in the U.S.?

[diane26]

Diane, you're in the U.S.?

Born and raised.

[Ratt]

Jrock - You make a valid point - as always. I hope your friend comes back in one piece.

Nikki - Good poli? Didn't know they existed... Good to know your mates are proud.

Diane - I can understand your feelings - I too have had close family involved in military ops.




Now just as a little side note - I am a wrestling fan - and when I saw the WWE RAW that went to Iraq, I too had a tear in my eye for the raw emotion that the wrestlers showed to the soldiers and vice versa.

[nikkibird]

Diane, I'm sorry! I thought that you were from another country and was putting down ours. Since you're from the U.S. too, I apologize. You have all the right in the world to say anything you want. Sorry, I didn't pay enough attention

[diane26]

LOL It's allright. And Yes I vote also.


I just get so frustrated with our Priorites some time.

I vote Chris Rock for presi. WOOT!!!