Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ So I Go To My Psych Class Today Since Missing Last

[diane26]

I didn't say that the person contemplating suicide is a selfish person; I mean that the act itself is selfish, whether the victim knows it's selfish or not.  Selfish people (like kids to who share) don't know they're being selfish.  Or maybe it's really more inconsideration. 

Interjection: Ironically there's a commercial advertising the overnight walk which is meant to spread suicide awareness and prevention.

Anyway... Obviously there's something else going through a person's mind other than rational thought.  While it may have seemed selfless at the time, now that you've gotten help and are able to think back on the time, don't you see how had you committed the act how it may have been on the selfish side.  Would your son have been better off??? HELL NO!!!  It was probably hard f-ing work to get help and get back on tract, but think of how much better things are that you're here in your loved ones' lives that had you succeeded. 

then again, I could be talking out my ass.  I am fortunate enough not to have had any close encounters with someone contemplating suicide.  But I tried to think it through logically for this post and I think I at the very least make a little bit of sense.

At the time I think he would have been better even now thinking logically, the situation I was in, the life he would have had when my parents adopted him would have been a really good life. He was very young so he would not have remembered me he would have the always there question though. For that I don't know how much that would have effected his life. B ut I know he would have been provided with a very loving home.

As far as myself besides my children I only have one stong rock in my life. Everyone else I don't think would have there life changed if I were gone, I mean I know some people would be sad but would be fine moving on, my step mom would take it the hardest after the kids but I would not get to that point now anyway.

Regardless I hate hearing about what a selfish thing it is because it is a very complex situation most of the time.. I always here how selfesh the person was how they wanted the easy way out of life how they were so weak and this and that and it really is not that black and white and to really understand I think you would have to have been that deep into that darkness and got out of it. I mean really in it not the times every now and than or as a teen when you were grounded or something. But when you were seriously contiplating ending yourown life.


But yes I can see for the most part what you are getting at. Many things in life are selfish for the most part most humans are selfish people by nature.

[UncleBuck]

I didn't say that the person contemplating suicide is a selfish person; I mean that the act itself is selfish, whether the victim knows it's selfish or not.  Selfish people (like kids to who share) don't know they're being selfish.  Or maybe it's really more inconsideration. 

Interjection: Ironically there's a commercial advertising the overnight walk which is meant to spread suicide awareness and prevention.

Anyway... Obviously there's something else going through a person's mind other than rational thought.  While it may have seemed selfless at the time, now that you've gotten help and are able to think back on the time, don't you see how had you committed the act how it may have been on the selfish side.  Would your son have been better off??? HELL NO!!!  It was probably hard f-ing work to get help and get back on tract, but think of how much better things are that you're here in your loved ones' lives that had you succeeded. 

then again, I could be talking out my ass.  I am fortunate enough not to have had any close encounters with someone contemplating suicide.  But I tried to think it through logically for this post and I think I at the very least make a little bit of sense.

well said

[Bobaloo]

At the time I think he would have been better even now thinking logically, the situation I was in, the life he would have had when my parents adopted him would have been a really good life. He was very young so he would not have remembered me he would have the always there question though. For that I don't know how much that would have effected his life. B ut I know he would have been provided with a very loving home.

As far as myself besides my children I only have one stong rock in my life. Everyone else I don't think would have there life changed if I were gone, I mean I know some people would be sad but would be fine moving on, my step mom would take it the hardest after the kids but I would not get to that point now anyway.

Regardless I hate hearing about what a selfish thing it is because it is a very complex situation most of the time.. I always here how selfesh the person was how they wanted the easy way out of life how they were so weak and this and that and it really is not that black and white and to really understand I think you would have to have been that deep into that darkness and got out of it. I mean really in it not the times every now and than or as a teen when you were grounded or something. But when you were seriously contiplating ending yourown life.
But yes I can see for the most part what you are getting at. Many things in life are selfish for the most part most humans are selfish people by nature.

I can say that "at the time" isn't the only time. No matter what was going on in your life at the time, there is a future ahead of that time. you probably couldn't think it all through then, but look at the changes you've made and how you have the awesome opportunity to be a positive influence in people's lives, whehter ou sons, other family members', or just other people you run across. Oftentimes you may not even realize you're being a postive influence. Your son may have been too young at the time, but you knew he'd grow up wondering. Then the rest of his life he would have had to wonder if his being born was a factor. And that probalby isn't the case, but he would still have to wonder that.

And, yes, humans are selfish. The fact remains that I could never know or understand what was going thorugh your mind at the time. I know no one will ever understand what your professor's hardships were. Everyone has their own hell. For me to say that yours or anyone else's hell is any better or worse than mine simply is not possible. But on the same token, a person who commits suicide has not properly evaluted the repurcussions of their actions on all concerned at all times down the road.

It goes without saying that I'm glad you had the strength and support to work through your problems. I applaud you for overcoming your struggle

Besides, just think how horrible it would be if you never got to meet me.

****Okay. I keep getting phone calls and getting distracted... So I'm just going to send this without proofreading... i hope it makes sense.

[diane26]

I can say that "at the time" isn't the only time.  No matter what was going on in your life at the time, there is a future ahead of that time.  you probably couldn't think it all through then, but look at the changes you've made and how you have the awesome opportunity to be a positive influence in people's lives, whehter ou sons, other family members', or just other people you run across.  Oftentimes you may not even realize you're being a postive influence.  Your son may have been too young at the time, but you knew he'd grow up wondering.  Then the rest of his life he would have had to wonder if his being born was a factor.  And that probalby isn't the case, but he would still have to wonder that.

And, yes, humans are selfish.  The fact remains that I could never know or understand what was going thorugh your mind at the time.  I know no one will ever understand what your professor's hardships were.  Everyone has their own hell.  For me to say that yours or anyone else's hell is any better or worse than mine simply is not possible.  But on the same token, a person who commits suicide has not properly evaluted the repurcussions of their actions on all concerned at all times down the road. 

It goes without saying that I'm glad you had the strength and support to work through your problems.  I applaud you for overcoming your struggle

Besides, just think how horrible it would be if you never got to meet me.

****Okay.  I keep getting phone calls and getting distracted... So I'm just going to send this without proofreading...  i hope it makes sense.

Thanks BOO, I see life in a whole new light than I ever saw it before and I am 99.9999% sure that I would never consider that path again, at least not as long as medication is around HAHA J/K sortof.

Anyway I been crying enough about my teacher **yes I cry you morons ** so I will step out of the deep thoughts for now.

Meeting you was well worth drinking the charcoal!!!

[natalie]

Can Wigglez and Nat  be the extra titties too??

Ah Diane I knew you wouldn't forget me. How totally unselfish of you.

[diane26]

Ah Diane I knew you wouldn't forget me. How totally unselfish of you.

I could never forget

And FOxy and Bush and Jlynn and the list goes on

[Bobaloo]

Ah Diane I knew you wouldn't forget me. How totally unselfish of you.

That hot tub is looking all the more enticing!!!

[foxy lady]

I could never forget

And FOxy and Bush and Jlynn and the list goes on

You can count me.....wouldn't miss it

[natalie]

That hot tub is looking all the more enticing!!!

Looks like less and less room for you. You can be the towel boy. Hubby can take pix! And topless is a rule ladies so Diane drink up if you need the confidence boost or motivation or whatever you wanna call it.

[diane26]

Looks like less and less room for you. You can be the towel boy. Hubby can take pix! And topless is a rule ladies so Diane drink up if you need the confidence boost or motivation or whatever you wanna call it.

Liquid Courage come to me

[foxy lady]

Liquid Courage come to me

Hell Diane I'll even bring it for ya......what do you drink hun?

[diane26]

Hell Diane I'll even bring it for ya......what do you drink hun?

Schmirnoff please

[Bobaloo]

Looks like less and less room for you. You can be the towel boy. Hubby can take pix! And topless is a rule ladies so Diane drink up if you need the confidence boost or motivation or whatever you wanna call it.

I'd be more than happy to be the towel boy. now where in the heck did I put those towels? Oh, well. I guess I'll just have to dry you ladies off myself

[foxy lady]

Schmirnoff please

Consider it done

[diane26]

So when is orgi I mean party I can hardly wait.

[foxy lady]

So when is orgi I mean party I can hardly wait.

I'm waiting to be told the date

[belicked6924]

There was a very serious issue being discused here and thought I would chime in with my 2 cents (cause that's about all it's worh on eBay)


I have to say that no matter how others interpret it suicide is an unknowingly selfish act. By this I mean that to everyone else it's a selfish act but for the person commiting it (in general) it is a very selfless act. Having been very close myself at different stages in my life, even after my son was born I had completly convinced myself about how much better off the world would be without me. How much better my son's life would be. I was the last person that I was thinking about. Most of it had to do financially because of the situation my son would have received a large life insurance settlement plus my retirement funds, plus social security that was equal to about half of my gross pay at the time, but anywho. A person that is deeply depressed like that continually beats themselves up, imagine the weird kid in high school getting picked on daily now take all that and do it to yourself.

Like I said just my 2 cents. Now I'm done being serious for a long while (I hope) back to the fun and smartassedness.

[jlynn]

I could never forget

And FOxy and Bush and Jlynn and the list goes on

I know, I'm a little slow at reading things around here...

But still.

[jlynn]

And suicide...wow. I'll skip all my psych-major mumbo jumbo and just go off of personal experience.

I was 12 when my grandfather committed suicide. I knew what had happpend, and why it had happened, and at the time, I wasn't angry, nor did I feel it was selfish. As time went on, though, my feelings changed. I'm still more hurt than anything, and I don't usually feel angry, but I struggle with whether or not it's selfish. At the core of the issue, I don't see why a person wouldn't have the right to do it, it's their own life. But as so many others have said, when you have a family, you have to really consider the effect it will have. I can't help but feel upset that my grandfather wasn't there to see me graduate in the top of my class, that he wasn't there to witness the birth of my brother's first son, his first great grandchild. Maybe that's selfish, but it makes a family feel DAMN inadequate that they weren't worth living for. I've seen the way it can ruin a family, as it did to my mother's side, and I guess maybe that's part of the reason I'm determined to become a psychologist.

Ultimately, we should not be here to pass judgement on these people, but rather to offer help to them, to let them know that there's always hope. Once you hit bottom, there's nowhere to go but up.

It makes me think of that Bright Eyes song, "No Lies, Just Love." I have to cry when I hear it, it has a deep emotional attachment for me.

For some reason, I don't think anything I just tried to say came out right.

[natalie]

And suicide...wow. I'll skip all my psych-major mumbo jumbo and just go off of personal experience.

I was 12 when my grandfather committed suicide. I knew what had happpend, and why it had happened, and at the time, I wasn't angry, nor did I feel it was selfish. As time went on, though, my feelings changed. I'm still more hurt than anything, and I don't usually feel angry, but I struggle with whether or not it's selfish. At the core of the issue, I don't see why a person wouldn't have the right to do it, it's their own life. But as so many others have said, when you have a family, you have to really consider the effect it will have. I can't help but feel upset that my grandfather wasn't there to see me graduate in the top of my class, that he wasn't there to witness the birth of my brother's first son, his first great grandchild. Maybe that's selfish, but it makes a family feel DAMN inadequate that they weren't worth living for. I've seen the way it can ruin a family, as it did to my mother's side, and I guess maybe that's part of the reason I'm determined to become a psychologist.

Ultimately, we should not be here to pass judgement on these people, but rather to offer help to them, to let them know that there's always hope. Once you hit bottom, there's nowhere to go but up.

It makes me think of that Bright Eyes song, "No Lies, Just Love." I have to cry when I hear it, it has a deep emotional attachment for me.

For some reason, I don't think anything I just tried to say came out right. 

I think you did just fine.

[Isaac_Putin]

Suicide is committed for a variety of reasons, but a lot of psychologists now consider it a hostile, selfish act -- at least where the person isn't incredibly mentally incapacitated (or dying of a terminal disease) when they do it:

For example, if I committed suicide:

1. I would leave two tiny kids who never got a chance to know me. And would wonder about me the rest of their lives. They would also wonder what was lacking in them that I would consider leaving them behind.

2. I wouldn't be able to support my family, and (I believe) most life insurance policies don't pay out on suicide as cause of death.

3. My wife would wonder for the rest of her life what it was that I wasn't telling her, what clues she should have recognized, etc. to detect that I was about to do something. And then that would be combined with bitter resentment for leaving her and the family in such a messed up situation.

4. My other various family members would be devastated. It would probably finish off my mother.

Without being egotistical, it would blow a huge hole in the lives of people close to me. And it would be a wound that could never be completely healed over.

[somfan]

Diane -
I'm a little slow to react here, but take some interest in your story for several reasons, as you know.

And we may as well discuss it in this normally cheery venue.

Suicide is very perplexing and touches many people, obviously. Having known people who have committed suicide, I share your grief.

Suicide can be something deeply personal but also can be a very social act, even a hostile act as Isaac Putin suggests. Indeed what is acknowledged as the first real sociological work was Emile Durkheim's classic sociological study "Suicide."

At least some people are blaming OC for conditions leading to the 3 suicides committted by full-time middle-aged instructors there. I find this blog on the web, which I would nonetheless take a critical look at:

http://blogs.kitsapsun.com/kitsap/bremerto..._bremerton.html
- Somfan

[somfan]

[quote=somfan,Apr 26 2006, 06:05 PM]
Diane -
I'm a little slow to react here, but take some interest in your story for several reasons, as you know.

And we may as well discuss it in this normally cheery venue.

Suicide is very perplexing and touches many people, obviously. Having known people who have committed suicide, I share your grief.

Suicide can be something deeply personal but also can be a very social act, even a hostile act as Isaac Putin suggests. Indeed what is acknowledged as the first real sociological work was Emile Durkheim's classic sociological study "Suicide."

OC does also offer free counseling services for students. http://www.olympic.edu/Students/StudentSer...persCouncel.htm
Washngton State also offers counseling to state employees.

But maybe there is something that we also can do as non-professionals to help prevent such tragedies.

[diane26]

I want to respond to it but havent had time to really read through the new responses yet so I will tomorrow when i get some time.

Somfan you know I checked the kitsapsun 3 days ago for any updates and they had nothing reported since the body was announced his I don't get it maybe the next school paper will I will look at the link but anyway I will get back to this tomorrow I think.

[diane26]

Ok i just read the link real quick WOW somfan, well one that is cool about the 4 year program allthough it doesn't matter to me now that I am moving but it sure will help with the new toll bridge something like 7 bucks round trip just to go to tacoma?? Anyway that will be good since 4 year has a hefty commute.

Anyway on to the other things, I have had many teachers at OC, only ONE of those teachers were bad teachers and she had no business being there at all not to mention the damn woman had to have lung cancer or something and spent half the class hacking up a lung and bumming ciggs and she always mixed up are grades and stuff.

But the rest of the teachers COOL AS HELL. I have some for sure favorites and not cause any favors some I took twice cause I did poorly the first time around but it wasant the teachers fault.

I know my Bio teacher just interviewed for Tenyear sp? and not sure if he got it but if he doesn't it will be a shame. He is one of the most liked and respected teachers of the science dept. He is one of those teachers you wish could just follow you and teach all your classes he makes the class so much fun.

So anyway I have no exp with the deans or big wigs at the college but as far as the professors and the classes I think that was an unfair assumption made by some of those people. I been going for 7 quarters now so I think I have some exp.

That is ALL

Jlynn I will read your posts when I get back it is getting so late, I skimmed a bit of it Ironically the teacher that killed himself was teaching psychology.

Ok for now.

[jlynn]

Ok i just read the link real quick WOW somfan, well one that is cool about the 4 year program allthough it doesn't matter to me now that I am moving but it sure will help with the new toll bridge something like 7 bucks round trip just to go to tacoma?? Anyway that will be good since 4 year has a hefty commute.

Anyway on to the other things, I have had many teachers at OC, only ONE of those teachers were bad teachers and she had no business being there at all not to mention the damn woman had to have lung cancer or something and spent half the class hacking up a lung and bumming ciggs and she always mixed up are grades and stuff.

But the rest of the teachers COOL AS HELL. I have some for sure favorites and not cause any favors some I took twice cause I did poorly the first time around but it wasant the teachers fault.

I know my Bio teacher just interviewed for Tenyear sp? and not sure if he got it but if he doesn't it will be a shame. He is one of the most liked and respected teachers of the science dept. He is one of those teachers you wish could just follow you and teach all your classes he makes the class so much fun.

So anyway I have no exp with the deans or big wigs at the college but as far as the professors and the classes I think that was an unfair assumption made by some of those people. I been going for 7 quarters now so I think I have some exp.

That is ALL

Jlynn I will read your posts when I get back it is getting so late, I skimmed a bit of it Ironically the teacher that killed himself was teaching psychology.

Ok for now.

I suppose I should've said it in one of the earlier posts, but I'm really sorry to hear about your professor.

[diane26]

And suicide...wow. I'll skip all my psych-major mumbo jumbo and just go off of personal experience.

I was 12 when my grandfather committed suicide. I knew what had happpend, and why it had happened, and at the time, I wasn't angry, nor did I feel it was selfish. As time went on, though, my feelings changed. I'm still more hurt than anything, and I don't usually feel angry, but I struggle with whether or not it's selfish. At the core of the issue, I don't see why a person wouldn't have the right to do it, it's their own life. But as so many others have said, when you have a family, you have to really consider the effect it will have. I can't help but feel upset that my grandfather wasn't there to see me graduate in the top of my class, that he wasn't there to witness the birth of my brother's first son, his first great grandchild. Maybe that's selfish, but it makes a family feel DAMN inadequate that they weren't worth living for. I've seen the way it can ruin a family, as it did to my mother's side, and I guess maybe that's part of the reason I'm determined to become a psychologist.

Ultimately, we should not be here to pass judgement on these people, but rather to offer help to them, to let them know that there's always hope. Once you hit bottom, there's nowhere to go but up.

It makes me think of that Bright Eyes song, "No Lies, Just Love." I have to cry when I hear it, it has a deep emotional attachment for me.

For some reason, I don't think anything I just tried to say came out right. 

Jlynn I am sorry to hear about your grandfather, my grandmother commited suicide right before I found out I was pregnant it would have been the first greatgrandchild it was 2 weeks before I found out anyway many family members would say, its to bad she didnt know than she wouldn't have done it. It mad me so angry they some how thought I had the power to stop her had I got pregnant 2 weeks sooner, like damn me, anyway you will make a good psychologist, It is a field I am very passionate with and have a LOT of exp with but would not persue allthough I am often highly encouraged because I get to personal with people I cant seperate work from home with caring about people so I don't try. But even today I sit in my class so bored cause I know what we are talking ab out and everyone is so Shocked and interested and I am like Duh commen sense people. ANyway way off tanget there, but from reading your posts for a long time now I could see you got what it takes to make a good psychologist comparred to a lot of people I see in my classes going to be one, it scares me what they will do to there patients.

Good luck to you with all of it and I hope you do well.

Your grandpa can see you I am sure I don't believe we are damned to hell if we commit suicide just me, I am sorry he felt so much pain inside he felt death was the best option.

[diane26]

Issac where did you get this from "but a lot of psychologists now consider it a hostile, selfish act "????

[diane26]

Diane -
I'm a little slow to react here, but take some interest in your story for several reasons,  as you know.

And we may as well discuss it in this normally cheery venue. 

Suicide is very perplexing and touches many people, obviously.  Having known people who have committed suicide, I share your grief.

Suicide can be something deeply personal but also can be a very social act, even a hostile act as Isaac Putin suggests.  Indeed what is acknowledged as the first real sociological work was Emile Durkheim's classic sociological study "Suicide."

At least some people are blaming OC for conditions leading to the 3 suicides committted by full-time middle-aged instructors there.  I find this blog on the web, which I would nonetheless take a critical  look at:

http://blogs.kitsapsun.com/kitsap/bremerto..._bremerton.html
- Somfan

I made a post on that blog somfan.

I would consider a selfish and hostile suicide those of the suicide bombers, although in there mind they thing they are doing good. Things we always be how we choose to see them in our own personal views so on a topic like this it is impossible to generalize, Sociologist do not get far enough recognition I think.

[CrazyJoe131]

There's an Italian tradition where, when somebody kills themselves, they take them outside of the town and bury them where two roads cross, becasue that person came to a crossroads in life and didn't have the strength to carry on, and now the people that did have the strength can walk over them forever. And yes, I do know people that have killed themselves, my history teacher who was like an uncle to me did this year.