So.. since I live where the church shootings happened and reading this... I thought I would have something to say, but I must be in a bad mood because all I can think of is what ass holes the people in Colorado Springs are. Honestly, they probably all carry guns down there anyways, and it didn't stop anyone. Anyways, bless everyone involved in all of this and let them find stength through the holidays.. I cant even imagine.

I really have to agree with Bondi. Have you looked at the gun laws in Japan?? Super, incredibly strict. Have you looked at their gun related crimes?? Almost nothing. I think it is really ignorant to try and argue that everyone should own a gun and I'm really sorry for the people that are that paranoid and convinced that they need a deadly weapon to protect themselves.

I too agree with Bondi - I mean here in Australia a guy killed 35 people at Port Arthur and within a short time even semi-automatic weapons were banned. The US has a constitution right to bear arms... but until they ammend that right (as the reasoning has long since stopped being an issue) unfortunately, US citizens also have the right to die en masse.

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Thanks Baby... I know this sounds very selfish but right now I am glad I live nowhere near where these things are happening and that I live in a country, whilst by no means perfect, a lot safer from mass shootings!



Yeah the Port Arthur massacre, what a sad day.

Almost immediately after we has a gun amnesty, no automatic weapons, no semi automatic weapons and very strict conditions on all other firearms. You basically had to live in rural Australia or be a certified shooter.

Sure there are people who still own guns and even semi automatic's but they are a lot harder to get on the black market than through legal avenues, and a lot more expensive. Meaning? The 15yr old twisted fuck of a kid who spends all his time in the basement cant just borrow daddy's and kill 20 of his class mates.



Mate you miss the point as usual. Which is why I said I wouldn't debate you, just state my opinion.

You live in a world of your own propaganda

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Something I saw on another website: Australians are learning the lessons of indiscriminate, draconian gun control laws the hard way. In 1996, a criminally insane man shot to death 35 people at a Tasmanian resort. The government immediately responded by passing stringent gun control laws, banning most firearms, and ordering their confiscation. More than 640,000 guns were seized from ordinary Australian citizens.(10)

As a result, there has been a sharp and dramatic increase in violent crime against the disarmed law-abiding citizens, who in small communities and particularly in rural areas are now unable to protect themselves from brigands and robbers. That same year in the state of Victoria, there was a 300 percent increase in homicides committed with firearms. The following year, robberies increased almost 60 percent in South Australia. By 1999, assaults had increased in New South Wales by almost 20 percent. Two years following the gun ban/confiscation, armed robberies rose by 73 percent, unarmed robberies by 28 percent, kidnappings by 38 percent, assaults by 17 percent and manslaughter by 29 percent, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

I am all in favor of the right to own firearms, I believe if someone is going to harm someone they will find a way. It gives me a little sense of security knowing that I am able to protect myself and family if the need arises.( if I am able )

There are I believe alot more deaths caused by other means than firearms in this world

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...71208/20071208/

This fellow apparantly had 3 previuos drunk driving convictions before this terrible crash...should we ban alcohol ( god I hope not )....it is a terrible thing to have happened and my thoughts go out to the people involved in these tragidies

people kill people one way or another

Mate what I am talking about is Mass Shootings. There will always be homocides. ALWAYS!

Also, the whole "gun to protect yourself" is BS. I have lived in Sydney (Australia's largest and inherently most dangerous city" all of my 26 years and I have not been shot, not been stabbed, never even really been in a fight!

Doesn't 35 people killed at that resort constitute a mass killing?

I'm curious where you found this...

http://www.haciendapub.com/edcor12.html

good information !!! even a rose has thorns !!!!


on a different note I have owned guns since I was 14 I currently have about 35 , none are automatic weapons , there are semi auto pistols and some semi auto rifles , but the highlight for me is Im 41 soon to be 42 and even with all these guns I have not shot 1 person , not even winged one , not even pulled one out to threaten somebody , my point is Normal people that pratice there right to keep and bear Arms in most cases so just that the Keep and Bear Arms .. Just My opnion

But it wasnt in a church or school or a mall ??????? A resort My heavens, what will they think of next !!!!

Yes, that was PRE gun laws being tightened in Australia. That happened, we have tightened our gun laws. Yes, there are still terrible things like rape and murder and robbery etc but we have not had a totally unprovoked, senseless massacre since.

In the USA in recent years
Columbine School massacre
The massacre of the Amish
VA Tech Massacre
2 or 3 church massacres
One shopping mall massacre


and these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head

Ok, what I don't get is if you all are so respectable with your guns, why do you oppose stricter gun laws (assuing from this conversation that most of you do)? It wouldn't effect the law obiding citizens, and if you value your right to own guns soo much, then you should be willing to go through a little more to own them.

I know it wouldn't stop crime, but it would deter some crazies who know they can get a gun like that...

I myself dont oppose stricter laws , what i do appose is some politician that has no clue what is going on here in the real part of this country trying to pass a law so he can garner the vote of some bunny hugging , tree kissing person that has lobbied him to do so , people talk alot about automatic weapons , if you take a well trained Marine or even just a simple farmer that has played with guns most of there lives they can take a semi Auto or even a single shot and load it fast enough to shoot several people before they could realize what has taken place , Id really like to see them make it impossible to buy a silencer cause you can shoot a person from 150 yards away and all anybody is going to see is the person fall there will be no noise , so this could be done by single shot which is what most sharp shooters use .. The thing that really troubles me personally is if I wanted to kill a large group of people say at a church , I could easily steal a car sit and wait for church to be out and when they are exiting the church , walking like a good flock should you could take the car and mow down probably a minimum of 10 and probably more then 25 in a very short period of time same way with at a mall , or a resort or a school , getting rid of guns only rids one weapon this nutsos could use , next do we elimnate cars , trucks , buses , trains Etc. I am not tryign to aurgue with anyone but i do have a opinion like anyone else . Have a great day .

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Here, here....




What do you mean exactly with your rhetorical questions?

I would be all for stricter "people control" laws

Here's an example of a massacre being stopped by a woman who was carrying a weapon:


Jeanne Assam, a church member who volunteers as a security guard, shot and killed Murray, who was found with a rifle and two handguns, police said. The pastor called her "a real hero."

"When the shots were fired, she rushed toward the scene and encountered the attacker there in a hallway. He never got more than 50 feet inside our building," he said. "There could have been a great loss of life yesterday, and she probably saved over 100 lives."

Boyd said the gunman had a lot of ammunition and estimated that 40 rounds had been fired inside the church, leaving what looked like a "war scene."

She described how the gunman, Matthew Murray, entered the east entrance of the church firing his gun. “There was chaos,” Assam said, as parishioners ran away. “I saw him coming through the doors” and took cover, Assam said. “I came out of cover and identified myself and engaged him and took him down.”

Assam had several years of experience in law enforcement and is licensed to carry a weapon. She attends one of the morning services and then volunteers as a guard during another service.

If you take away the right to bear arms in America, mall shootings won't stop, church shootings, school shootings, etc. Those incidents have less to do with gun control than they do with problems we have in our society and culture. Even if there wasn't a single gun in America, people would go to malls and kill others with knives and bombs.

Interestingly enough, when I was in Costa Rica, you saw guns everywhere, people working in stores had them, a McDonalds employee had one, bank security guards carried shotguns. When I asked if things were dangerous, they said there was almost no violent crime, simply because if you tried to hurt someone with a gun, there was a good chance four or five would be pointed back at you.

I can also say for a fact that a gun saved my Uncles life. If he hadn't been allowed to own and have a gun, he would most likely not be here today.

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Just to point out, a very likely reason for some of those massacre's, is copycat syndrome. Which is brought on by the fact that when anything shooting related happens here in the US. It receives tons of media attention. This makes some of the loons out there see the attention people receive and desire it themselves. You see that in other countries that have these situations also.

Thats not something I thought up, that was from some lecture on criminology in psych or soc. back in college...

an old saying says .. ( LAWS CANT CHANGE HUMAN NATURE ) a good case for this being fact is people drinking and driving . speeding , driving without insurance .. etc.

Mate I see your point and it refreshing to debate with someone who can put his thoughts into words as well as yourself. I just have to ask one question though... what came first, the chicken or the egg? The gun saved x amount of people that day but without the criminal's gun, would the samaritan's gun be needed?

I am well aware of the copycat syndrome. I am a big Kurt Cobain fan and I remember reading of the dozens if not hundreds of people who committed suicide as a direct reaction to his suicide.

The question I pose to you is why does it not happen in Australia? We are a very similar society to the USA and these shootings usually lead the news over here, massive media coverage in print, radio and TV. No copycat's though?

My actual point was more of a numbers thing, 7 is a lot worse than 1, yet if you consider that 5 of those 7 were directly related to the 1st, it makes a little difference.

Really? All the times I've been in Australia, I always thought you had to dig a little to find any American news, perhaps I was reading the wrong papers and watching the wrong news. Still I think theres a difference in hearing about something that happened in the U.S. when you live in the U.S. and when you hear about something that happened in the U.S. and you live in a different country.

A lot of foreigners would chalk it up to "those crazy Americans"

Why doesn't it happen in Australia? Good question, I'd say tougher gun laws do play a part. God forbid though, should someone go out of there way to get a weapon and do something like that, then you could see another round of violence similar to what we have faced.

I mean why don't kids in Mexico shoot there classmates? I know for a fact you can get automatic weapons down there, no problem.

Sadly though, I think the US had a series of individuals who were determined to go out there and hurt people, they were going to do it no matter what.

Recently theres been a little more activity like this in Europe, and in some of those place, gun ownership in virtually nill.

Besides, tougher gun laws, and even removal of guns, is not going help. Not in this day an age. All it will do is take the guns out lawful citizens hands. And force more criminals to go through Mexico for handguns and South America for automatics.

Why do gangbangers have Mac-10's, pretty sure you everday citizen isn't supposed to have those, in any place.

Sorry, got a little long winded there. I'm not really an ultra-conservative, but this is one thing I do feel passionatly about.

And well done to you for standing up for what you believe in.

I have never lived in a society where gun ownership was a regular thing. I know a couple of guys who do own a rifle but they go pig shooting in outback NSW (There are a lot of feral pigs in the outback) but aside from those guys I don't know anyone who has a gun, it is just foreign to me.

I don't really chalk your predicament (your country's predicament) down to "those crazy Americans" but more the gun culture that you have been bought up with. To me guns are for the bad guys and the cops, where in the US it seems from the outside looking in that guns are for anyone... catch my drift?

Mate when were you in Aus? Get your ass back here and I will shout you a beer (buy you a beer)

Interesting side question? Is it legal to hunt Kangaroo? I know I saw a few places offering the meat, but in most areas it seemed that folks go out of their way to protect them.

And that's why you're a lot more reasonable than some of the foreigners I've dealt with.

I first went to Australia when I was 16-17 as a school thing and fell in love, been back twice... Last time was around... 16 months ago I guess... A friend was working with one of the big corps. in Sydney and had me out for a week.
I can't wait to go again. The U.S. is my home, and I love it dearly, but if I ever leave it's because I found a job in Australia. I'll tell you when I'm heading back again, hopefully in the next year or so...

You need a specific set of licenses to hunt Kangaroo.... Joe Blow down the road can't shoot Skippy but farmers who have problems with wild roo tearing up their crops can kill them. They are good eating too!

Ahh you should have told me, I might have been able to give you a few hidden secrets to check out, off the tourist path! Let me know when you are out again mate

Too bad they found out that he killed himself.