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RMM Message Board _ Shoot The Breeze _ Afghanistan
Posted by: Ratt Jan 17 2006, 11:06 PM
I have been reading something from another forum I'm on, and thought that I would share it. Now I realise that this topic may cause some controversy, and for that I apologise, but I think it is worth talking about. Here is what was written:
To update you on some things:
The netherlands is planning to quit helping the amrican war effort in Afghanistan. The government is devided on the subject and half of the government doesn't want to send in 1100 of our soldiers to afghanistan.
This is how the american government replies:
"If the netherlands doesn't help with the war effort they will face dire sanctions."
I mean?! WTF! now USA is threatening the netherlands! How long will it be until the headlines in the newspapers read: BALKENENDE, PREMIER OF THE NETHERLANDS HAS KEPT HIS WEAPONS OF MASS DESCTRUCTION FROM THE PUBLIC. OUR SPIES REPORT LARGE FACILITIES.
I mean... fuck off, we are fucking STORING damn american missiles and waste!
Bat as I always say: The USA may have bombs, but we can cut off their drug supply 
we PRODUCE the stuff that your officials are addicted to...
what happens when we stop the flow
This post was written by a friend of mine in Holland. What *really* concerns me is that if Bush has pretty much said to the world "You are with us or against us" and other countries that have supported the USA now wish to withdraw troops, they must be allowed to. I say this because the way it sounds to me is that Bush may/will attack countries that have withdrawn their troops.
I was all for some action to get Osama Bin Laden, but there is now a new government, one that does not support him. By all means leave some troops for peace keeping, and to find the prick, but it has been over four years and they still have not found him. Maybe a smaller force would be more successful?
Posted by: bts34e Jan 17 2006, 11:54 PM
I agree, that we should not force any country by any means to help. Whether said country wants to take action or not is there decision. This being said I pose a question to any country that chooses against helping the United States. Should the United States lend aid on any of the numerous issues of these countries? I am no genious but I understand the simple concept of give and take. Maybe you can enlighten me but I bet the united states does more than its share for any of these countries. Further more the notion that The United States is so frivilous on who they choose to go to war with is absurd! People should get a grip!
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 12:01 AM
I am not trying to say that the US will go to war with anyone; but the possibility is there. I think the original post mentioned the US response as
"If the netherlands doesn't help with the war effort they will face dire sanctions."
Now, You are quite correct with the give and take, but surely the US can do better that to basically bribe troops out of a country?
I admit that the US has provided, and will probably continue to provide, a large amount of aid to many countries. But to impose imposing dire sanctions for not supplying troops seems to be blackmail; which to my way of understanding things is not a legal thing to do.
Posted by: bts34e Jan 18 2006, 12:11 AM
My take on this is simple. I did not hear or see this quote from anywhere except you and some friend of yours that I take is a reporter. Spain pulled out the United States didnt threaten them! Why would the United States take this stance on a country that was talking about sending 1100 troops? It sounds to me like a simple case of hearing one side of the story. This seems to happen entirely too much to the United States, especially by people who call themselves allies!
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 12:13 AM
Hmmm... very good point. I had not thought of it that way.
Maybe it's time to do some *ahem* "proper" research...
Posted by: bts34e Jan 18 2006, 12:19 AM
Please understand I respect your opinion, I just believe in fairness. I also respect you for wanting to find the facts! 
Posted by: countryboykalamazoo Jan 18 2006, 12:23 AM
The truth is, none of us will ever know the "truth", we only know what the government allows the media to tell us. I believe that the media likes to spin things in their favor, whatever it takes to get an audience. But I do agree that I think a small elite task force is all that is called for in the search for Osama, and pull the rest out, let the people govern themselves. Look how well it worked out when the British allowed us to govern ourselves(maybe not the best example depending on your point of view of the state of the demorcracy) 
Posted by: countryboykalamazoo Jan 18 2006, 12:25 AM
"THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE"(where is Mulder when you need him) 
Posted by: bts34e Jan 18 2006, 12:35 AM
I agree that we only know what they want us to know. This is why I believe it's difficult to take a stance. I'm just tired of the default stance being that the United States sucks!
Posted by: countryboykalamazoo Jan 18 2006, 12:45 AM
Ditto, but how we are percieved is out of our hands, it's the foriegn media that portrays us as imbecials and religiously intolerant of other cultures. America, brings us your masses..........just as long as they pass a conformity test, doesn't sound like what our country was founded on, or what has mad us a the melting pot of the western world, but people forget how deversified and tolerant the majority of the population is, just the whack jobs that everybody sees and hears about. Like when a tornado goes through a trailer park...........who is the first person the media looks for to interview.......the biggest illiterate hilljack in the area(but it is kinda of funny because it's almost expected now 
).....What was I ranting about now??
Posted by: bondiguy Jan 18 2006, 01:41 AM
No war is necessary, no one will ever stop the Taliban, Al queda etc, even if Osama is found and killed. There will simply be a new person to replace him at the top with the same radical ideas etc.
Just thank the lord you do not live in those countries
Posted by: jrock8 Jan 18 2006, 02:21 AM
umm... i think they would thank allah there
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 02:48 AM
Hmmm...
In regards to the perception of Americans in other countries - Don't forget that we get a lot of American TV Shows that give a biased insight into the American Culture. Add that to the fact that some of us in Australia call our Prime Minister "Bonzai" because he is really just a little Bush.
And In regards to the forces needed to "sub-due" Bin Laden and his forces... all I can say is a large force cannot hope to beat a small force when the conditions (such as terrain) favour the small forces.
*end rant*
Posted by: nikkibird Jan 18 2006, 02:57 AM
Nobody will ever agree here. I'm from the U.S. but I don't agree with everyone in this country. Right now I don't know how to feel because I don't know all the facts. I'm not sure if what your friend heard was true or not, so I'm at a loss. But I do know that I would never support trying to force another country into supporting the war we started.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 02:57 AM
Hmmm bad subject for me to get into well American Politics that is.
Maybe someone should put american in the word association post so I can put hypocrit
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 03:00 AM
Maybe someone should put american in the word association post so I can put hypocrit
Ouch...
Posted by: nikkibird Jan 18 2006, 03:00 AM
Maybe someone should put american in the word association post so I can put hypocrit
Well then, you're not much better, since you're stereotyping us.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 03:02 AM
Not all Americans dear just the political part of America.
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 03:02 AM
Peace Ladies... Peace...
Did not want this thread to turn into an argument.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 03:02 AM
And yes I am not much better cause as much as I can not stand our political side sometimes I would never leave to another country to live.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 03:03 AM
Did not want this thread to turn into an argument.
Don't worry about me just letting o0ut my little vent on our governmant since we were on the subject.
Posted by: jrock8 Jan 18 2006, 03:07 AM
all i have to say on this topic is that your perspective entirely changes when one of your close buddies finds out he's getting sent over for at least a year, probably closer to 18 months...
Posted by: nikkibird Jan 18 2006, 03:07 AM
Did not want this thread to turn into an argument.
I am not arguing, just making a point. And I happen to have a close family member that is a GOOD politician, so I take offense to the stereotype
Posted by: nikkibird Jan 18 2006, 03:08 AM
I have 4 friends in Iraq right now, and they are very proud.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 03:09 AM
Well I guess it's good that in America you have that right as do I.
Do I think every person is bad. Of course not. But when it comes to our politics concerning other countries I think we are the biggest hypocrites out there.. JMO of course.
And I myself have had many people close to me fight in this war the Iraq war and Dessert Storm Vietnam and WW2.
All the men in my family are military. My little bro ws shipped off to Iraq just fresh out of boot camp and training for over a year!
Posted by: nikkibird Jan 18 2006, 03:11 AM
Diane, you're in the U.S.?
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 03:12 AM
Born and raised.
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 03:14 AM
Jrock - You make a valid point - as always. I hope your friend comes back in one piece.
Nikki - Good poli? Didn't know they existed... Good to know your mates are proud.
Diane - I can understand your feelings - I too have had close family involved in military ops.
Now just as a little side note - I am a wrestling fan - and when I saw the WWE RAW that went to Iraq, I too had a tear in my eye for the raw emotion that the wrestlers showed to the soldiers and vice versa.
Posted by: nikkibird Jan 18 2006, 03:14 AM
Diane, I'm sorry! I thought that you were from another country and was putting down ours. Since you're from the U.S. too, I apologize. You have all the right in the world to say anything you want. Sorry, I didn't pay enough attention
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 03:15 AM
LOL It's allright. And Yes I vote also.
I just get so frustrated with our Priorites some time.
I vote Chris Rock for presi. WOOT!!!
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 03:18 AM
I just get so frustrated with our Priorites some time.
I vote Chris Rock for presi. WOOT!!!
That is the one thing I am *really* jealous about... You Americans can choose to vote or not...
In Australia, we have a democratically elected dictatorship. Bonzai's party got both houses, so anything he wants, he gets. And we have to vote, if we dont, we get fined.
Posted by: nikkibird Jan 18 2006, 03:18 AM
I just get so frustrated with our Priorites some time.
I vote Chris Rock for presi. WOOT!!!
I agree with you, I'm not happy with everything that's going on either. I just get into defense mode when I think I'm talking to someone foreign. I guess I am a hypocrite!
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 03:20 AM
We cant help it hon we are americans it is in our genes:p
Ok I got homework to finish hopefully I will have time to pop back on but for now it is time to break apart alkanes carboxylic acid.LOL Night if I cant cum back.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 04:00 AM
While on Politics did anyone see the new girl kidnapped and threatned with Beheading in 3 days. American Reporter she looks like she is barely 15 
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 05:40 AM
Maybe this would work?
Posted by: bts34e Jan 18 2006, 09:48 AM
Do I think every person is bad. Of course not. But when it comes to our politics concerning other countries I think we are the biggest hypocrites out there.. JMO of course.
And I myself have had many people close to me fight in this war the Iraq war and Dessert Storm Vietnam and WW2.
All the men in my family are military. My little bro ws shipped off to Iraq just fresh out of boot camp and training for over a year!
Many thanks for your families service and safe home to your brother, he's very much respected. As far as this political talk goes, I'm pretty sure our government is widely considered the best working system so far in history. Nothing is perfect, everything can be improved. As far as calling the United States hypocrites is unfounded and unfair. Once again a case of someone bashing the United States without example or explanation, and a fellow American at that with a brother serving! I want to know why we are hypocrites, Is it the politically correct thing to say to people from other countries suddenly? Because we gave Irac weapons years ago? Or because we gave Africa $20+ billion in AIDS relief?
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 10:25 AM
Sorry bts, I gotta ask a question...
Why is her brother a hero for being in Iraq? No disrespect to diane's brother; but what makes him so special? The fact that he puts his life on the line for his country? Tell me, a police officer puts their life on the line every day as well, for their country, yet most people treat them like scum. Could this be the hypocricy that you ask of?
Ratt.
NOTE This was not posted to start an arguement of flaming. Sorry if it offends any; that was never my intent. - Ratt.
Posted by: bts34e Jan 18 2006, 10:37 AM
Why is her brother a hero for being in Iraq? No disrespect to diane's brother; but what makes him so special? The fact that he puts his life on the line for his country? Tell me, a police officer puts their life on the line every day as well, for their country, yet most people treat them like scum. Could this be the hypocricy that you ask of?
Ratt.
NOTE This was not posted to start an arguement of flaming. Sorry if it offends any; that was never my intent. - Ratt.
Your right "hero" was the wrong word, should have said "very much respected" I'll change it, and I do feal the same about community workers.
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 10:41 AM
Much appreciated... Whilst I have a lot of respect for the fighting men and women of ANY country, I do think that the term 'Hero' is thrown around too easily now-a-days. It used to be reserved for someone who had perfromed acts above and beyond the call of duty... but it seems now it as just for doing your job and getting noticed for it
Posted by: bts34e Jan 18 2006, 10:44 AM
Agreed!
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 18 2006, 11:30 AM
I joined this site to admire these very beautiful ladies. It is a shame that this has to be my first post but I cannot believe what I am reading."If the Netherlands doesn't help with the war effort they will face dire sanctions.",Give me a break! I would like to know what Gov't official wrote this Quote. This is nonsense! The United States is beginning to say this to Iran and only because they want nuclear weapons. I doubt this was said to the Netherlands unless they to are planning on building nukes. Regarding Afghanistan, The USA should level this rotten country. I am sorry that our brave soldiers must die but ours is a volunteer army and this is the job they signed up for. We cannot let 9-11-01 happen again. I have very strong feelings on this subject since I live in NYC. I would like to get into this more but I will cut myself off because I don't believe this is the right forum to be discussing this important subject IMHO.
Posted by: bts34e Jan 18 2006, 11:35 AM
A little stronger then I would have said it but, Woot there it is!
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 18 2006, 11:45 AM
madam moderator I saw you in the Ranger Jersey and you have a fan for life!
Posted by: Gnappster Jan 18 2006, 11:50 AM
we should debate religion while we're at it here lol.
3 things I don't like to debate are religion, poiltics or what country is better than another. But good points have been made here.
I think that Netherlands quote is maybe taken out of context or something.
I am from Canada and we chose to send troops to Afghanistan to help with peace keeping but chose NOT to send troops to invade Iraq. The US wanted our troops to go to Iraq as well, but they repected our decision not to, albeit after some trashtalking back and forth. And we haven't felt any dire sanctions yet, and we live directly north of them. And I think there is a lot of anti-american propaganda in other countries, cuz when you are arguably the most powerful country, of course other nations will take pot-shots at you.
Hey I don't like Aussie's either, but it is more enjoyable making fun of Americans (ONLY KIDDING! )
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 18 2006, 12:09 PM
I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, I respect that. If you show me a quote saying "Mr.Wadd from the US State Dept. on 12/24/05 said this country is in trouble for not supporting the USA" I would expect the people of that country are not going to like this. I might not agree with your opinion but I respect your right to say it. I am not naive enough to believe everyone loves the USA right now. People in our own country disagree with things going on.but if you want to bash at least start with facts not hearsay.
Posted by: Gnappster Jan 18 2006, 12:16 PM
johnny wadd, I gotta say, that is one disturbing av!
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 01:41 PM
BTS it wasnt about Bashing America and as I stated I wouldn't want to live elsewhere. I just get frustrated with how hypocritical we can be. I can give you plenty of examples when I get home I am at school right now and cant really get into it. It isn't unfounded nor unfair for me to say such things because it is simple my opinion. As a Mother of 3 children it sickens me to see all the horrible shit that goes on in our own country yet we are always policing everyone else.
Clean up your own house before you offer advise to your neighbor. Anyway there are more things I can get into but cant right now. I am very proud and greatful for my family and what they have done. I love america and what it stand for in the most part. But when it comes to certain politics it really pisses me off and as an american I have every right to express this without being told I am bashing america or I should move else where or whatever else I hear. How can things ever change if no one speaks out to what they think is wrong??
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 01:45 PM
Why is her brother a hero for being in Iraq? No disrespect to diane's brother; but what makes him so special? The fact that he puts his life on the line for his country? Tell me, a police officer puts their life on the line every day as well, for their country, yet most people treat them like scum. Could this be the hypocricy that you ask of?
Ratt.
NOTE This was not posted to start an arguement of flaming. Sorry if it offends any; that was never my intent. - Ratt.
In the same respect the soilders we fight are no different. They do what they signed up for. They fight for there country and listen to there leaders. I hold no ill will towards the regular soilders of other countries we fight. They are doing the same thing our troops our doing. Now the wacky leaders and there partites different story. Same with us as well.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 01:49 PM
As far as not for this forum probably right I knew I should not have got into this here but alas I am me and couldnt help myself. I will go back to my other forum where I can debate me little heart out LOL.
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 18 2006, 02:32 PM
Since the Subject was Afghanistan I would just like to add that I for one do not consider the human garbage that flew two planes into the WTC "soldiers".You have to be human to be a soldier.People feel strongly about Politics these days and thats very understandable . You are way out there if you think animals who fly jets into buildings full of Thousands of innocent people are soldiers.I did not know anyone in those buildings who went to work that morning thinking they were soldiers.I had thought that Afghanistans Gov't at the time was told to hand over these murderers and they told the civilized world to go to hell.This is why our soldiers are over there.I am sorry but To call a murdering terrorist a "soldier" is ridiculous.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 02:51 PM
Since the Subject was Afghanistan I would just like to add that I for one do not consider the human garbage that flew two planes into the WTC "soldiers".You have to be human to be a soldier.People feel strongly about Politics these days and thats very understandable . You are way out there if you think animals who fly jets into buildings full of Thousands of innocent people are soldiers.I did not know anyone in those buildings who went to work that morning thinking they were soldiers.I had thought that Afghanistans Gov't at the time was told to hand over these murderers and they told the civilized world to go to hell.This is why our soldiers are over there.I am sorry but To call a murdering terrorist a "soldier" is ridiculous.
Ummmm I just reread what I wrote and when did I once talk about the suicide bombers. I talked about soilders. Actually Military troops most fresh out of HS fighting got there country.
The people that flew into the trade center were radicals and not soilders by any means. Please do not assume I was meaning someone I wasnt when I clearly stated nothing of the sort.
"I am sorry but To call a murdering terrorist a "soldier" is ridiculous"
By all means point out where I said this. Thanks and by for now time for class.
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 18 2006, 04:41 PM
Ms.Diane I dont wish to fight with a pretty lady like yourself.This thread was about Afghanistan.I can understand your point if you were talking about another arab country .The other country alot of americans disagree about whats going on and If you wrote that You do not agree with this countries policy regarding going to war in the other country I would not have wrote a word.Regarding Afghanistan That country was run by and financed by the same animals who were responsible for 9-11-01.When a country like France is fighting side by side with US forces in Afghanistan you know this is not some bogus war.I just think your argument may be valid when your talking about war with the other country but I cannot see it being valid in this case.Allied forces in Afganistan are killing terrorists ,not soldiers.I apologize if you feel I was attacking you.I'd much rather be looking at your beautiful pictures then talking politics.I did not wish to inflame things.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 07:29 PM
Well again I want to clarify I was speaking about soliders in general right here I say COUNTRIES
"In the same respect the soilders we fight are no different. They do what they signed up for. They fight for there country and listen to there leaders. I hold no ill will towards the regular soilders of other countries " because I was speaking of soilders from all around in wars we fight. The men and woman that sign up for there country. I may not agree what they are fighting for b ut that is what they signed up for just like I know many US troops that dont agree with us being in Iraq but they do there job because that is what they signed up for. I am not talking about any extremest group or underground organization radicals or any of that. Just the regular soilders that most countries have that do what they are told and do there job bravely.
Now to ease the tension in here
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 08:37 PM
)Well Canucks are not much better...
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 08:47 PM
"In the same respect the soilders we fight are no different. They do what they signed up for. They fight for there country and listen to there leaders. I hold no ill will towards the regular soilders of other countries " because I was speaking of soilders from all around in wars we fight. The men and woman that sign up for there country. I may not agree what they are fighting for b ut that is what they signed up for just like I know many US troops that dont agree with us being in Iraq but they do there job because that is what they signed up for. I am not talking about any extremest group or underground organization radicals or any of that. Just the regular soilders that most countries have that do what they are told and do there job bravely.
Now to ease the tension in here
Nice way to ease the tension.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 09:54 PM
Yeah I thought so plus barely anyone is reading this thread so they wont be the wiser.
Posted by: Ratt Jan 18 2006, 09:58 PM
Hmmm... feeling tense again...
Posted by: diane26 Jan 18 2006, 11:47 PM
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 19 2006, 12:55 AM
You eased my tension.I'm a nice guy and like I wrote your a fine looking lady.I'd rather check out your fine pictures then discuss politics any day of the week.I don't want to be negative with anyone.I am sorry if I got upset about it,this is a touchy subject for me.Sorry I cant show you something to ease your tension but I don't have the balls to do that.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 19 2006, 12:59 AM
It's not a problem I get very passionate about how I feel as do most people we can get back to talking about what we do best here at RMM so I hope I did well at changing the topic. LOL Like I said I have a forum I go to where I can debate my heart out LOL.
Thank you for the wonderful compliments glad you enjoy.
Posted by: somfan Jan 19 2006, 01:01 AM
"In the same respect the soilders we fight are no different. They do what they signed up for. They fight for there country and listen to there leaders. I hold no ill will towards the regular soilders of other countries " because I was speaking of soilders from all around in wars we fight. The men and woman that sign up for there country. I may not agree what they are fighting for b ut that is what they signed up for just like I know many US troops that dont agree with us being in Iraq but they do there job because that is what they signed up for. I am not talking about any extremest group or underground organization radicals or any of that. Just the regular soilders that most countries have that do what they are told and do there job bravely.
Now to ease the tension in here
Thanks Diane for showing that boobs and political discussion do go together.
What a better world it could be!! - Remember: Make Love, not War!!
Posted by: diane26 Jan 19 2006, 01:03 AM
Well if you dont hurry up and get over here there might be a war you are only a ferry ride away.
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 19 2006, 01:23 AM
I check your post and my mouth dropped as I saw a picture of you half naked.this is a really good website.thanks for the peek Ms.Diane
Posted by: diane26 Jan 19 2006, 01:45 AM
You are very welcome:)
Posted by: afraven Jan 19 2006, 02:56 AM
Well, as a member of the Air Force, I've had the terrible pleasure of visiting the Middle East on many occasions. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afganistan, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE etc. I've been shot at on a few occasions by small arms fire and had some of those bastards on a hill from outside our base launching mortars on our tents, then running away before our security forces could get to them. The way they think is that 1 of their lives is worth 10 American's lives. I know this because I've spoken with many moderate thinking Arab workers on base and they told me this personally. In the Arab world, the man with the biggest stick is the king, point blank, and in order to get them to understand you are serious, you have to basically bitch-slap them regularly. Don't ever feel sorry for me or my military counterparts because we're fighting an unpopular war and get sent away to foreign lands, we raised our right hand and swore to defend the Constitution of the US and to obey the President, so help us God, and we will. No different than a fireman or policeman, only difference is, the military are the "defenders of Democracy", however, we're not the "practicers of it." I love my country and our way of life, and I want it for my daughter and her kids. If it takes turning the entire Middle East region into a sheet of fucking glass from dropping a nuclear weapon on their collective asses to stop this terrorist shit, then so be it! It's a case of Social Darwinism, and in the end, every Arab who dons a Pizza Hut table cloth on their head, wearing a belt ladened with C-4 exposives, deserves to meet Ala before they carry out their dirty deeds. Until you've been there and seen what you're military has seen, the looks of happiness on the Iraqi childrens' faces, reconstruction, schools, markets, and most of all, FREE SPEECH that they'd NEVER had before, you can't speak. If you believe the press, you're sadly misinformed. Fact is, bad news sells more papers and programs than good news does. I'm sorry to have drawn this out, but I feel our country did what it needed to do after 9/11. Afterall, you don't tip-toe into the lions' den, you kick down the door, have your spear ready, scream like a banshie, and say," Where is that son of a bitch!"
Posted by: Ratt Jan 19 2006, 03:20 AM
Remind me not to piss you off...
Seriously tho... You make some damn valid points. It is good to get some "non-press" information. Thankyou.
Sincerly,
Ratt.
Posted by: bts34e Jan 19 2006, 03:25 AM
Thank you for this and everything you do. Keep kickin down those doors...
Posted by: somfan Jan 19 2006, 04:18 AM
I guess we have the bigger stick for now.
Don't ever feel sorry for me or my military counterparts because we're fighting an unpopular war and get sent away to foreign lands, we raised our right hand and swore to defend the Constitution of the US and to obey the President,
Unfortunately, you are in the unenviable position of obeying a president who
is himself by several accounts violating the Constitution of the US.
so help us God, and we will. No different than a fireman or policeman, only difference is, the military are the "defenders of Democracy", however, we're not the "practicers of it." I love my country and our way of life, and I want it for my daughter and her kids. If it takes turning the entire Middle East region into a sheet of fucking glass from dropping a nuclear weapon on their collective asses to stop this terrorist shit, then so be it!
Yes, there were folks like that who were advocating using nuclear weapons against China and Vietnam 35 years ago. Today we're peddling Kentucky Fried Chicken in both countries. What political objectives do you really think can be achieved with such extreme measures as the use of nuclear weapons?
It's a case of Social Darwinism,
Speaking of social Darwinism, the self-deluding arrogance of the Bush administration may well lead eventually to much diminished US power in both Asia
and the Middle East. Other important things are going on in the world while the US is involved in the quagmire of military adventurism in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The Soviet war in Afghanistan was certainly a factor in bringing down the Soviet Union. And Bush is not raising taxes to finance and "support" the troops. But coming generations of US taxpayers will be paying the trillions of dollars of war related costs. BTW, we skipped out on having to pay the remediation costs in Vietnam after that similar debacle. (Self-interest can sometimes be involved in losing.)
and in the end, every Arab who dons a Pizza Hut table cloth on their head, wearing a belt ladened with C-4 exposives, deserves to meet Ala before they carry out their dirty deeds. Until you've been there and seen what you're military has seen, the looks of happiness on the Iraqi childrens' faces, reconstruction, schools, markets, and most of all, FREE SPEECH that they'd NEVER had before, you can't speak.
[SIZE=7][COLOR=red]Sorry, but we can, and do speak, and I know veterans who
don't share your view of the situation in that region in its totality.
If you believe the press, you're sadly misinformed. Fact is, bad news sells more papers and programs than good news does. I'm sorry to have drawn this out, but I feel our country did what it needed to do after 9/11. Afterall, you don't tip-toe into the lions' den, you kick down the door, have your spear ready, scream like a banshie, and say," Where is that son of a bitch!"
Posted by: bondiguy Jan 19 2006, 05:56 AM
Amen to that... War is something so hard to fathom. People always put it in the "It'll never happen to me" category but when it does... the full force is felt
Posted by: Ratt Jan 19 2006, 10:26 AM
Just makes you wish they'd got it right in WW I - The War to End All Wars
Posted by: Gnappster Jan 19 2006, 11:46 AM
I liked the boobie pictures
Posted by: diane26 Jan 19 2006, 01:49 PM
I guess I will have to take some more cause if I hop in this again it is gonna get very ugly so that is my que to exit stage left.
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 19 2006, 02:00 PM
Damn! I was hoping you would calm everyone down again.Your pictures have a calming effect.
Posted by: Ratt Jan 19 2006, 02:03 PM
Hmmm...
*hurls insult towards johnny*
See diane? You need to step in again...
Posted by: diane26 Jan 19 2006, 02:08 PM
Sorry boys I am at school cant do nothing right now:(
Posted by: Ratt Jan 19 2006, 02:10 PM
Oh...
*hurls insult towards diane*
just kidding... *hurls insult towards diane's school...*
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 19 2006, 02:19 PM
Guess I will have to go outside and take out this anger on the first Old Person I walk into.This all could have been avoided if it wasnt for Ms. Diane26 needing an education.Oh well......(you think the thought of me beating up an old lady will make her feel bad?)
Posted by: Ratt Jan 19 2006, 02:21 PM
Guess I will have to go outside and take out this anger on the first Old Person I walk into.This all could have been avoided if it wasnt for Ms. Diane26 needing an education.Oh well......(you think the thought of me beating up an old lady will make her feel bad?)
Not nice dude.
But she's at school, give her a break.
*hurls insult at old lady outside johnny's place*
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 19 2006, 02:29 PM
Was worth a try.BTW I am a gentle giant,would never hurt a fly or an old lady. 
Posted by: Ratt Jan 19 2006, 02:34 PM
gentle giant? I am 5' 8" about 300 lbs... And often called a big teddy bear...
Posted by: diane26 Jan 19 2006, 02:37 PM
Damn the man Just damn the man.
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 19 2006, 03:53 PM
I'm 6'4 228 pounds I am gentle and have been called a giant by most people.
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 19 2006, 04:02 PM
(BTW I can be an ANGRY MONSTER if it will help me see some fine boobage again)
Posted by: Ratt Jan 19 2006, 08:50 PM
WTF?
Posted by: Ratt Jan 19 2006, 08:52 PM
*hurls insults at johnny in attempt to make him an ANGRY MONSTER*
Posted by: afraven Jan 20 2006, 09:01 AM
Right or wrong, no matter what my friend, you back YOUR country!!! Don't fall on the WRONG sword.
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 20 2006, 10:23 AM
At least someone else is sane. WASHINGTON, Jan. 19, 2006 — In response to the new Osama bin Laden audiotape threatening MORE ATTACKS against the United States, Homeland Security officials are sending out a bulletin to 18,000 police agencies telling them to review all their intelligence.HELLO!!!!!!! Enough of the Bush is the son of the Devil,He's lowering taxes ,College Professor liberal lecturing Crap . This animal is IN Afghanistan telling us he has these other animals ready to kill us and or families, the more innocent people the better. How is there an argument about this?Will they still be arguing when this Animal kills a million people?I suggest a peace mission by anyone who volunteers to go to pakistan-Afghanistan and go make peace with these monsters.See how long you keep your heads.
I am sorry for the Rant but In light of this tape coming out I just dont see what the argument is about.
Posted by: Ratt Jan 20 2006, 10:35 AM
I am sorry for the Rant but In light of this tape coming out I just dont see what the argument is about.In light of these tapes I am certain of only one thing. Osama bin Laden must be stopped, and all those men and women of ALL nationalities trying to stop him doing his foul work should be looked up to.
I realise that people may look at what I have written in this thread and think I have done a complete backflip with my opinion - that is not the case. I have always wanted Osama brought to Justice. I just also to see these things discussed.
Ratt.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 20 2006, 01:19 PM
For the love of god you can back your country and still speak your mind about what you think is wrong. Isnt that what makes america well america??? We can do that. We dont have to agree with the war to support our troops.
Bleck WHY THE HELL DO I EVEN LOOK IN HERE!!
Need to study exam in 2 hours and it is not on politics.
Posted by: Vlad Jan 20 2006, 02:38 PM
Since the Subject was Afghanistan I would just like to add that I for one do not consider the human garbage that flew two planes into the WTC "soldiers".You have to be human to be a soldier.People feel strongly about Politics these days and thats very understandable . You are way out there if you think animals who fly jets into buildings full of Thousands of innocent people are soldiers.I did not know anyone in those buildings who went to work that morning thinking they were soldiers.I had thought that Afghanistans Gov't at the time was told to hand over these murderers and they told the civilized world to go to hell.This is why our soldiers are over there.I am sorry but To call a murdering terrorist a "soldier" is ridiculous.
Human Garbage?
Look I've read this thread and what I can tell, you are nothing but an american patriot. Well good for you. But don't ever talk shit about soldiers of any breed. Because I could list human garbage that was american born and raised till I'm short on breath.
A soldier is one who fights for their country and beliefs. If taking planes and crashing them into the WTC was a mission, then it was preformed with valour and it was successful.
Your entire army is a terrorist organization. You are trained to kill and that's all. Your slogans are "kill kill kill"
You invaded a country under false accusations of weapons of mass destruction and thousands suffer daily from the United States being in Iraq.
The threat of death is just as high (if not higher) with US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now I'm not here to just bash the US or anything. But I can't just stand by and let someone believe they are right in what they say. Hypocrisy and irony is a very strong trait I notice far too often in Americans.
Iraqi soldiers are just as brave and great as the US army soldiers. Each fights for what they believe in and die for what they follow. Don't ever disrespect another soldier in this thread again or I'll let my tongue lash out on the rampant idiocy you spout.
It's fine to be proud of who you are. But don't ever speak ill of any fighter. Ally or enemy.
Winston Churchill said "when you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite."
Posted by: diane26 Jan 20 2006, 04:19 PM
Look I've read this thread and what I can tell, you are nothing but an american patriot. Well good for you. But don't ever talk shit about soldiers of any breed. Because I could list human garbage that was american born and raised till I'm short on breath.
A soldier is one who fights for their country and beliefs. If taking planes and crashing them into the WTC was a mission, then it was preformed with valour and it was successful.
Your entire army is a terrorist organization. You are trained to kill and that's all. Your slogans are "kill kill kill"
You invaded a country under false accusations of weapons of mass destruction and thousands suffer daily from the United States being in Iraq.
The threat of death is just as high (if not higher) with US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now I'm not here to just bash the US or anything. But I can't just stand by and let someone believe they are right in what they say. Hypocrisy and irony is a very strong trait I notice far too often in Americans.
Iraqi soldiers are just as brave and great as the US army soldiers. Each fights for what they believe in and die for what they follow. Don't ever disrespect another soldier in this thread again or I'll let my tongue lash out on the rampant idiocy you spout.
It's fine to be proud of who you are. But don't ever speak ill of any fighter. Ally or enemy.
Winston Churchill said "when you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite."
I dont know if I have enough pictures to calm down this thread now.
Excellent points Vlad
As Martin Lawarence said. "Gotta go see yah when I see yah"
Posted by: bts34e Jan 20 2006, 05:45 PM
Look I've read this thread and what I can tell, you are nothing but an american patriot. Well good for you. But don't ever talk shit about soldiers of any breed. Because I could list human garbage that was american born and raised till I'm short on breath.
A soldier is one who fights for their country and beliefs. If taking planes and crashing them into the WTC was a mission, then it was preformed with valour and it was successful.
Your entire army is a terrorist organization. You are trained to kill and that's all. Your slogans are "kill kill kill"
You invaded a country under false accusations of weapons of mass destruction and thousands suffer daily from the United States being in Iraq.
The threat of death is just as high (if not higher) with US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now I'm not here to just bash the US or anything. But I can't just stand by and let someone believe they are right in what they say. Hypocrisy and irony is a very strong trait I notice far too often in Americans.
Iraqi soldiers are just as brave and great as the US army soldiers. Each fights for what they believe in and die for what they follow. Don't ever disrespect another soldier in this thread again or I'll let my tongue lash out on the rampant idiocy you spout.
It's fine to be proud of who you are. But don't ever speak ill of any fighter. Ally or enemy.
Winston Churchill said "when you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite."
I think they are more like a cult than anything. Human garbage fits just fine and I for one am not concerened about any tongue lashing coming from you! Who's the hypocrit? You think you can tell people what they can or cannot call those "soldiers" but you also think everyones entitled to there own opinion. Get a grip!
Posted by: jrock8 Jan 20 2006, 05:48 PM
bts... you can "get a grip" on me anyday
(sorry, just thought i'd bring some levity to this
)
Posted by: bondiguy Jan 20 2006, 05:50 PM
mmmmmm.... I like boobies too
Posted by: bts34e Jan 20 2006, 05:51 PM
(sorry, just thought i'd bring some levity to this
)
Posted by: diane26 Jan 20 2006, 06:45 PM
How about them SeaHawks
Posted by: afraven Jan 20 2006, 06:51 PM
Bleck WHY THE HELL DO I EVEN LOOK IN HERE!!
Need to study exam in 2 hours and it is not on politics.
Diane, I wear my uniform proudly everyday and protect your right to speak your mind, that's the American way. Our country is not perfect by any stretch, but I'd rather live no where else in the world than the US. I also love the freedom of expression that we have in this country. That's what gives you the right to show those big beautiful tits of your on here!!! God I love this country!!!
Posted by: diane26 Jan 20 2006, 07:33 PM
I thank you for that like I said I have complete respect for soilders all of them to do what they do, my family is stong military. But just because one does not agree with a war or actions of there leaders does not mean they dont support the men and woman that put there life on the line. As a wise person once said. The only Bush I trust is my own
Ok for real no more political talk for me here just wont be the same.
Posted by: Vlad Jan 21 2006, 03:22 AM
Well you are right. You can say anything you wish. But once spoken you are wide open to reply. I can call anyone who claims the Taliban "human garbage" a hypocrite since your own army is comprised of the very same filth as any army.
Must I mention Abu Ghraib for American soldiers?
Must I mention Somalia for my fellow soldiers?
Must I mention the genocide march of Germany?
Must I mention Nemmersdorf and the Russians?
Must I mention Rwanda?
Armies throughout history are filth filled and just as evil as their enemy. There is no saint army of those who do no wrong or evil.
By listing one army as human garbage. You condemn your own army to the same title.
It is not I who needs to get a grip. It's you who needs to see the human beings that armies are comprised of. Just because they look different and fight for a cause you do not believe in does not make them any less human. They are still you in basic image and mind.
Posted by: Ratt Jan 21 2006, 05:47 AM
Ok - here is another way to look at it.
The people that flew planes into the WTC were in fact Humans. The fact that what they did cannot be comprehended by what we call "a sane mind" does not necessarily deny them their human status. Don't like them, or more specifically, their actions, by any means, but at the end of the day they are human.
The thing that has not been said to this point in this thread is the following: What is seen as Evil depends on which side you are on. Thus, what we see as evil would be seen by our enemy as good, and we are evil.
I will try to be careful when I say this next part, for I know that it will stir a shitstorm, and for that, I apologise. But the people that flew planes into the WTC saw it as a means to stop evil. The US and it's allies (Including my own beloved Australia) sent troops into Iraq and Afghanistan to stop an evil. I know it is a far stretch - but what is the difference. Many casualties in all countries were not trained military, for don't forget that the Taliban was not the official military of Afghanistan.
I will stop now, and look forward to your replies. All I ask is that however passionate you are on the subject; please try not to respond with anger in your mind, but rather take the time to think what you say first. Hopefully this will stop the flaming that is starting on this thread.
Thankyou.
Ratt.
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 21 2006, 06:10 AM
Hey Vlad you off your meds? whos is talking about Iraq?.I made it a point not to bring up that other place because alot of people disagree about whats going on in that place.this thread was about AFGHANISTAN,cant you read the page?maybe if your mother or brother or another familly member was in the world trade center on 9/11/01 and you never saw them again or you went to funerals where they buried your good friendS legs cause thats all they could find or an empty coffin because everything was turned to ash . the thousands of other poor souls who died that day werent soldiers,they were working to support families.Maybe you should hop on a plane to New York and come visit Ground Zero? See what these MURDERERS did to thousands of innocent civilians ,see the hole where two great skyscrapers stood.I think you have your countries mixed up my friend either that or there is something wrong with you.I pray our soldiers wipe out everyone of those animals in AFGHANISTAN.YOU EXPLAIN WHAT IS SO GOOD ABOUT THOSE MURDERERS IN THAT COUNTRY.maybe if you suffered a loss that day you would know what country your talking about?
Posted by: Vlad Jan 21 2006, 06:49 PM
Do you think Afghanistan is any different from Iraq? Not in the slightest. The US in Afghan land is still an invader. Those people are fighting for what they believe in. Both sides. Calling ones side garbage is a pitiful way to see human beings. War isn't pretty and it's always innocence that usually pays the price. Do you think the collateral damage in Afghan land is worthless just because they are not American?
People are dying more frequently with foreign soldiers there then when no of us were there.
You are trying to list American lives a higher priority. Well that makes you a pretty pathetic person.
You want to talk pain now?
Guess where I work. I am a weapon's technician in the PPCLI forces. You know what I have to walk by every single day at the garrison?
A statue of four soldiers who died from "friendly fire" caused by your armies stupidity and sheer "don't give a damn" attitude.
I knew Corporal Ainsworth Dyer. I didn't know him deeply but he was still a man I saw from time to time and met up with in instances.
Almost every fucking day I walk a memorial to a friend who died because of your stupid war. Don't ever open your cock filled mouth and talk tragedy until you live it.
That was the first time in my life I had ever prayed for someone to be killed horribly. The people I wished dead were your soldiers. Those 2 pilots to date will never receive a drop of sympathy from me. And if no eyes were looking I'd kill them.
I don't care which side wins so long as the needless and innocent deaths cease. And guess what? Your "cause" isn't noble or anything heroic. It's pointless and a stupid act of revenge. Your country are murderers just as much as the Taliban.
I have deep feelings for the war and I hate that people are dying, but death comes in all forms. And when you're buried, nobody gives a shit where you are from.
Posted by: bondiguy Jan 23 2006, 12:43 AM
each post longer than the last!
What happened to the good old days of 
wow nice tits
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 23 2006, 04:09 AM
What happened to the good old days of
wow nice tits I wish Old Vlad
would come here to NY and repeat his neverending rant.
Posted by: Gnappster Jan 23 2006, 12:44 PM
FRAT
fuck reading all this
Posted by: Vlad Jan 23 2006, 08:31 PM
would come here to NY and repeat his neverending rant.and what?
The people there would freak at what is reality (albeit grim) just because they too are american and cannot understand their enemy nor wish to learn to?
Posted by: bondiguy Jan 24 2006, 12:37 AM
would come here to NY and repeat his neverending rant.dude judging by your av pic you are kinda scary so i wouldnt wanna fuck with you!
fuck reading all this
amem ganppy.... I lose concentration after one sentence that has no mention of boobs, kittys, ass, sex etc etc
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 24 2006, 01:32 PM
amem ganppy.... I lose concentration after one sentence that has no mention of boobs, kittys, ass, sex etc etc
Anyone who comes to a webpage called rate my mellons just to defend terrorist's is A few french fries short of a happy meal!
Posted by: Gnappster Jan 24 2006, 01:37 PM
mmmm......french fries
Posted by: Vlad Jan 24 2006, 06:43 PM
I didn't come here just to defend soldiers of all views. This thread came long after my arrival. You are once again in err.
I'm so sorry Johnny that I cannot be an uncouth fascist like you'd so much like me to be. I guess I simply evolved well beyond bigotry and hating what I don't understand. Perhaps one day you will be amongst the civilised.
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 24 2006, 10:13 PM
RELAX VLAD ,take your meds.
Posted by: Vlad Jan 25 2006, 12:49 AM
I'm not on any medication.
Posted by: diane26 Jan 25 2006, 12:52 AM
I am
Posted by: bondiguy Jan 25 2006, 12:57 AM
mmmmm.... something
Posted by: johnny wadd Jan 25 2006, 01:18 AM
VLAD,TELL ME WHY THEY KILLED MY FRIENDS AND YOU WIN,O.K.?
Posted by: Vlad Jan 25 2006, 12:12 PM
VLAD,TELL ME WHY THEY KILLED MY FRIENDS AND YOU WIN,O.K.?Because you're government trained them to kill and gave them the weapons to fight the russian's afghan war. You cannot blame a dog that you taught to attack for biting you.
Everything that has befallen on the US was caused by the US.
I win.
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